Bülent Eroğlu - Human Rights

Dear Bülent Eroğlu, welcome. >> Thank you for having me. >> We are doing this program with you in the open air today. In the garden of the Cemevi. You are a person who lived in Turkey and has been living in Berlin for 6 years, a human rights activist. Today we will talk to you about human rights violations. But before we move on to our main topic, can we get to know you briefly? Who is Bülent Eroğlu? I am Bülent Eroğlu, born in 1968 in the village of Acarkent in Varto, Muş. After living in Turkey for many years, I had to come to Germany 6 years ago. I am emphasizing this because I had to. I experienced such hardship. I have been working for a long time in areas related to human rights, democracy, freedoms, and rights . >> What caused you to deal with human rights violations, what drew you to these issues? Why did you feel the need to engage with these topics? I cannot say that I entered the struggle for human rights with a single event. I thought that we should be sensitive to certain injustices and unlawful acts that I have encountered in Turkey for a long time. I could not stand at a distance, I could not remain silent. Because I think that when someone else is treated unjustly or unfairly, we should feel as if it were done to us and we should react to it. Because, While someone else is a victim today, we ourselves could be the victim tomorrow. This is a situation that comes entirely from my sense of responsibility. >> Isn't that already at the core of Alevism? I mean, what do we say? To stand by the oppressed and stand against the oppressor, automatically, regardless of whether they are Alevi or not, if someone is being treated unjustly, to stand by them and join that struggle. >> Yes. This is a situation that is completely compatible with the essence of Alevism. Plus, it is also a requirement of universal life. >> Yes. Which injustices and human rights violations in Turkey do you think pushed you toward this activism? Could you specifically list what you have heard, read, and seen? What were the human rights violations experienced in this sense in Turkey? >> Yes. There are unjust and unlawful practices in many areas in Turkey. Yes, in contrast to this, there are measures framed and written in the laws and regulations. But these remain on paper. When it comes to implementation, they are absolutely not applied. For a long time, people have been in a very difficult situation under a repressive regime in Turkey. They lose their jobs. They lose their bread. Their homes are being broken up. They are exposed to economic pressure. A form of psychological torture is also applied to people. Great censorship is being implemented. There is no freedom of expression. When people want to speak, write, or say what they want, they are absolutely and immediately...subjected to criminal sanctions. They are being sealed and coded. Uh, because of that, uh, the distress is truly immense, and many people are currently victims, I have it here. Uh, right now, uh, I have a few figures too. If you would allow me, I would like to >> uh, read these figures to you. These figures belong to the year 2025. They are excerpts from a report taken from a certain part, if not the whole of Turkey. Uh I don't know the truth of it . We don't know the real, uh, the real figures. >> We think it's even higher >> we believe it's much higher. For instance, 2,749 deaths occurred as a result of, uh, violations of the right to life. I mean, this is something massive. When 3 or 5 people are affected elsewhere in Europe, things get shaken up, but here we have 2,749 deaths. >> It's a very large number. >> Yes. 1,842 people are victims of torture and ill-treatment. 847 were detained during meetings and demonstrations. 507 were detained due to freedom of expression, for expressing their views. There was also judicial harassment directed at 303 journalists and publishers. I mean, uh, these figures are really at a, uh, terrifying scale. Uh, this was repeatedly mentioned in the reports of the human rights, uh, European Court of Human Rights and the, uh, European Commission. >> Yes. I mean, very large numbers, of course. Truly very large numbers. As you said, if this happened there, for 3 or 5 such things, the place would be shaken up, but nothing happens there. Behind that, something else is forming, too. Now, people have become such that, in this government period, in recent years, it's about seizing property, isn't it? I mean, they take the guy's house, they take his shop. I mean, people have no security left. >> Yes. I mean, the guy has worked for, like, 20 or 25 years. Uh I mean, the innocent and the guilty are burning together. Uh At the point the country has been brought to today with a deaf economy policy, because they are cornered on the eve of the election, they have started seizing the property of almost their own supporters, their own loyalists. The situation is that bad. Uh, the man has worked for 20, 30, 40, 50 years, whatever, he saved up, built a business, established a company , but, uh, he has no security. They go >> and seize it. I mean, be it a factory owner, a holding, a newspaper, a media outlet, or a TV channel, they absolutely, uh, do not recognize the law. They seize it. >> So, how is the situation regarding, um, that? Regarding freedom of expression, for example, you could perhaps give the example of Deniz Göktaş. I mean, the guy is a stand-up comedian, he does a show. I mean, there is no insult there, no threat, nothing, but he gets detained. How is the situation of freedom of expression and such in Turkey? >> The understanding of democracy in Turkey, uh, has gone way, uh, backwards . I mean, people cannot freely use their freedom of expression. Unfortunately, when they attempt to use their democratic right to freedom of expression, uh, detention procedures are immediately carried out. They are immediately punished. As I said a moment ago, they are subjected to all kinds of punishments with psychological pressure. Today, uh, you play music on the street and you get detained. You dance, you get taken into custody. You shout a slogan of an ethnic group at a stadium. You get taken into custody. I mean, there is absolutely no tolerance for expression. >> So, what is the situation of human rights defenders in Turkey? Is there serious pressure on them as well? I mean, what position are they in? >> They are constantly under surveillance in every area. They are being harassed. As a human rights defender myself, I was exposed to this. In fact, this is one of the biggest reasons why we came here. We have always...I am a member of the Human Rights Association (İHD) in Izmir. We used to have our press statements every Saturday. In front of the Sümerbank. 20 or 30 of us would come together. We would make the necessary press statements there. uh We would have press statements regarding unsolved murders, our missing friends, or people who suffered injustice, but 100 police officers for 20 people, >> plainclothes police officers would surround us. We were under great pressure. I personally know the days I was followed by plainclothes police all the way to my home. Moreover, it was open, meaning we would make eye contact with the police. Meaning, "I am following you, you are under surveillance.""Either you won't come to these kinds of events, or I will keep following you like this." And many of our friends were taken from their homes for this very reason. They were detained. They were given sentences. I mean, when I say they were given sentences, they even invent the crime. They find the crime too. By fabricating crimes, they detain human rights defenders with the help of false witnesses. >> Uh-huh. >> Their offices are raided, their materials are confiscated. >> Yes. Then, starting from this, we cannot talk about judicial independence or a fair trial either. >> Absolutely. There is no such thing as a judiciary. Because the persons tasked with representing the judiciary are mostly their own people anyway. >> As a result of the staffing they have done over these 20, 25 years, they have enveloped the entire apparatus of the judiciary today. And they excommunicate those who speak out or those who want to pass judgment in the right way, I mean, the dissidents. They absolutely excommunicate them. They don't even allow such a thing. Decisions are completely arbitrary, within the scope of these practices. >> And if we are going to talk about democracy, what is one of the fundamental rules of democracy? It is the separation of powers, isn't it? Yes , but in Turkey, it has reached a state where all of them are in the hands of the executive branch. In a way, the judiciary takes decisions in the dimension the executive wants. So, there is no independent judiciary in question. >> Yes. Absolutely. I mean, in Turkey, the judiciary, the legislature, the executive, as I said, are all in the hands of the executive. Uh, all positions and all offices have lost their functionality. The word and authority come from a single person. >> Yes. >> Turkey is currently being managed that way. >> Yes. You said you had to come to Germany. You arrived, and here too, of course, human rights, not necessarily in the Turkey dimension, but human rights violations occur here as well. What do you see as the serious human rights problems here? Which issues are those? >> Well, no matter where you go in the world, there is definitely a human rights violation. But this also exists here in Germany as well. Even if it's not as oppressive as it is in Turkey, there is a hidden discrimination here too. Discrimination is an issue. This, uh, happens when looking for a house, or looking for a job. Uh, it happens in the field of education. There is huge discrimination regarding issues related to immigrants. This happens by the hand of the state. Sometimes it happens with institutions. Sometimes it happens with organizations. But, uh, there is definitely a hidden discrimination. Mhm . >> Mhm. Have you personally experienced or observed any issues regarding racism and discrimination here in this area? >> Uh, yes. I mean, it's not right to label the whole society based on individual experiences. Uh, these people, uh, in Germany, can still be exposed to discrimination due to their origins, colors, uh, ethnic structures, uh, and cultures. They can be exposed to discrimination. >> Mhm. Have you experienced this personally, or is it more like things you've heard? I mean, you, there are examples of this. We experience this all the time. For example, I once witnessed something. While going on the U-Bahn, uh, for example, at one of the stations, a woman got on with a baby stroller. The driver immediately got off behind the carriage. He said, "No," he said, "This isn't the place for a baby stroller." he said. She was an immigrant woman. "You have to go to the back." he said. He forced the woman to get off and sent her to the back. Then, at the next stop, a German person got on with a baby stroller. The driver opened his door again. He stuck his head out and looked. >> H. >> Uh, the German didn't say a word. "Okay ," he said. He closed the door. He pulled his head back inside. So we clearly saw discrimination there. When someone is of immigrant origin, they can show their reaction. They intervene . But if someone is German, uh, they ignore it. Uh, it's the same with house hunting, and the same with jobs. If, uh , you have a German name, uh, your business is handled on paper. But if you are an immigrant, unfortunately, it is left in limbo. >> Yes. Now, do you think immigrants and asylum seekers are able to access their rights here? I mean, are there difficulties in that sense? There are definitely difficulties. I don't believe they are fully able to access their rights. There are already many obstacles in the way of accessing them anyway. Uh, most of them don't know the language. Because they don't know the language, uh, they generally cannot reach them. Because there is no support or they haven't fully figured out the system, uh, unfortunately, they experience problems. What do you think is the biggest difference between being a human rights defender in Turkey and in Germany? The problems regarding human rights in Turkey and Germany are different. While oppression comes to the forefront in Turkey, discrimination , immigrant rights, and social inequality draw attention in Germany. But the main fundamental value is the same: protecting human dignity and everyone's rights. >> Mhm. No matter which country we are in, standing up against injustice is very important. >> Yes. Is there anything you would like to say in conclusion? I mean, specifically, what would you like to say to our people regarding these issues, regarding these human rights violations? >> What I would like to say about this is that let us be sensitive. If an injustice is being done to someone else , intervening, defending, and providing support is something that is identified with human dignity. It is a universal stance. We need to do this. If we do so , we will grow stronger, advance, and achieve development. >> Yes. Yes, dear Bülent Eroğlu, thank you for joining our program. You shared your thoughts and knowledge with us. I wish you ease and success in your life and your struggle. >> Thank you very much for having me as a guest.