Gospel | Chapter 7: Dec 14, 1882 (Part 6) | Swami Sarvapriyananda

Om Tava Katam Ritam Tattaji Vanam Kavi Viretam Kalmasaapaham Shravanamangalam Srimadatam Bhuvigrinanti Bhuridha Janaha So this is our Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna class, this translation from the Bengali original, the dialogues of Sri Ramakrishna, the conversations. And this is like a reading. So do chime in with comments, questions, observations, objections. Alright, so we are in the middle of this long conversation between Sri Ramakrishna and Vijay Krishna Goswami who was a regular visitor to Sri Ramakrishna and a member of the reform organization, the Brahmo Samaj. So this is a very interesting discussion which has lots of stuff. We are on page 169, I read this portion last time but I'll read it again a little bit. I don't have too much more to say about it but there's couple of things I want to add. The question that Vijay Krishna had asked that why don't we see God and then Sri Ramakrishna's answer was because of Maya. But what is Maya precisely? He gives this answer that Maya is our ego, ahankara. And that also has to be understood carefully. Does the enlightened person not have an ego? There's a subtle distinction here. If you become enlightened, won't you have an ego? And it would be a little strange. You know, the ego is basically a function of the mind. And the mind has multiple functions like we have thoughts, we have memories, we have desires, perceptions, emotions, intellect and ego also. In Vedanta, ego is called ahankara, in Sankhya psychology also, ahankara. Literally ahankara if you translate will become eye maker, ahankara. And it's taken as a most ordinary function of the mind. There's a definition of that also. In Vedanta Sara we have studied what is ahankara. Abhimana Atmika Antakkarna Vritti ahankara. The appropriating function of the mind is called ego. Appropriating function, lots of things are going on. You need something to unify all this. So there is thinking going on, remembering going on, seeing going on, hearing going on, desiring going on, emotions are there, liking, disliking. All of this has to be integrated into one unit, one person. I am the one who sees, I am the same one who hears, and the same one who's thinking, and the same one who likes or dislikes, and the same one who's remembering. Otherwise they would all be separate functions. Yes. What ties them together? So ego. Ego, that's the function of the ego. And it's just a function of the mind. And it's there sometimes, sometimes it's not there. As I mentioned last time, you know the idea of flow where we are in intense concentration, the ego sense disappears. When a tennis player is playing a really good game of tennis or a musician is playing a musical instrument to the best of his or her ability, they will all report that for the time being the sense of ego disappeared. For the time being. And then again the sense of ego disappears in deep meditation, in sleep, in deep sleep. Everything disappears. Ego also disappears in deep sleep. So ego is just a function of the mind. Now why am I stressing this? When you say you tie it with Maya and enlightenment, it seems that when we are in Maya, there is ego and we are not enlightened and we do not see ego, God. And since Sri Ramakrishna says when the ego goes, one realizes God, which means the enlightened person seems to say that enlightened person doesn't have an ego. Because if you have an ego, you're not enlightened. If you don't have an ego, then you're enlightened. But you know what's strange about it? Enlightened person clearly is embodied. You can see that they are embodied. And the enlightened person is clearly seeing and hearing and smelling and tasting. Clearly the enlightened person has feelings because they report it. Clearly the enlightened person is thinking and remembering. They can remember our names even after enlightenment. They can't say that I've forgotten everything. What happened? Amnesia? No, enlightenment. Everything is functioning. Their heart, liver, everything is functioning. If you give a physical checkup after enlightenment, the doctor will say that it's good marks for good health. You're enlightened. It's not that your organs, multi-organ failure, what happened? Enlightenment. No. So everything is functioning in the body. Everything is functioning in the mind. Only ego has failed. That would be a little strange. Not only that, there is contrary evidence to that. All the enlightened persons use the word I. So what does it mean that ego is that which prevents us from seeing God and once the ego goes, then you become enlightened? What does it mean? Clearly the ego has something to do with spiritual life because all sorts of spiritual texts talk about the ego and how to overcome the ego. So what's going on here? Now I'm giving you an answer from the Vedantic perspective. Vedantic perspective. Other perspectives will have different takes on this. So the Vedantic perspective is the ego will continue. Just like everybody else, enlightened person also, just as the mind is working, memory is working, heart is working, liver is working, ego is also working. However, there is a huge difference in the ego. What's the difference? An enormous difference. Till that time, till before enlightenment, we identified ourselves with the ego. Who am I? This one which is saying I, that's who I am. The one which is saying I now. I am sitting here. That's truth for me. I really don't think that I am an all-pervading consciousness and in that one body is appearing on one planet called earth and in that body there is a mind and in that mind there is a function of the ego and I'm a witness to all that. I don't really think that way. I am this body mind. So the ego which integrates the body mind is the appropriating function, unifies the body mind. We are identified with that. We think I am that one. The moment I think I am the ego, I think means I am clear about it. I have no doubt about it. I don't ask a question about it ever. The moment I do that, ego is a function of the mind. So I am immediately identified with the mind and the mind is very closely connected with the body. So I am immediately identified with the body also and the result is I think I am this. What about the enlightened one? In the enlightened one's case they use the word I. I can give a proof here. This book is full of, you know, S. Ramakrishna often uses the word I. However, according to Vedanta the enlightened one uses the word I in two senses. One is the primary sense in which they are very clear. Aham brahmahasmi, I am brahmahana, I am awareness. There also there is a subtle way of understanding this. I am this person. Directly the I is referring to this person. I am this person. I am brahmahana. The I actually cannot refer to brahmahana. It will not work this way. But the moment I, like for example I say I am sitting here. I mean it literally. I am this body and I am sitting here. But if I say I am pure awareness or pure consciousness there is a little twist there because the I cannot directly refer to pure consciousness because it's this I, the ego sense along with all the activities of the mind is being revealed by pure consciousness. It cannot point to pure consciousness. It's only the person who's enlightened who gets it. But that apart. The enlightened one, the broad meaning is that the enlightened one when the enlightened one really says I, what the enlightened one really means is I am pure awareness. I am infinite being. I am brahmahana. It's very clear about it. S. Ramakrishna will also say here. And in a secondary sense the enlightened one uses the I, the ego to point to body-mind just like the rest of us. Why would they do that? In order to interact with us. In order to interact with us. Transact with us. Because they are in this world. So otherwise their language would be so odd as to be un-understandable. Though they slip up sometimes. S. Ramakrishna sometimes says this place. Normally we wouldn't say this place. Unless you've read and there's a lot of undigested or half-digested Vedanta. I get letters like that sometimes. Emails. One gentleman wrote that nice email to me. And he signed off as a all-pervading pure consciousness which is in this body and mind Mr. Mishra. Which is right but you should not talk in that way. Just use normal language. So that's the difference between the use of I for the rest of us and the use of I for someone like S. Ramakrishna or Jeevan Mukta or an enlightened person. Fully enlightened person will use the I in a different sense. So that's the mystery of ego from an Advaitika or Vedantic perspective. S. Ramakrishna halfway through here he says that Jeeva is nothing but the embodiment of Satjidananda. But since my our ego has created various upadis he has forgotten his real self. So you Jeeva right now we are sentient beings. Jeevas. Body, mind, consciousness. This Jeeva is actually Satjidananda. Limitless infinite being. Infinite consciousness. An infinite place. But because of ego what has happened is we have forgotten our infinite nature. Satjidananda nature. And we have identified ourselves with the ego. Exactly what I was saying now. In Enlightenment what happens? I realize that I am actually Satjidananda. Existence, consciousness, bliss. I am Brahman, I am Akman. I realize that very clearly. And I continue to use the I to transact with people and also refer to that second that I am that. Then he mentions, since Maya or ego has created various upadis he has forgotten his real self. How does it work? How does pure consciousness come to be trapped? Quote unquote within this world of samsara. So in Vedanta there is a theory of upadis which we mentioned last time. So upadis are yes you are limitless consciousness but in that limitless consciousness what appears? A mind appears. Thoughts, feelings, emotions, personal story, memory, ego. All of that appears in consciousness. And that's connected to sensory apparatus enabling us to see and hear and smell and taste. It's all limitless consciousness. And that's connected, it's set, embodied in one particular physical body which is set in time and space in a vast theater of this universe. All of it is appearing in pure consciousness. Still no problem. The problem really starts is when that pure consciousness aspect our real nature is veiled. Maya does these two things. It veils and it projects. It veils our nature as this limitless radiance. It's right here. It is the most obvious thing in the world. But somehow amazing thing is it's veiled and it projects. What does it project? Upadhi. Mind, senses, body, world. How does that work? I forget I am infinite consciousness. I am mind. I am a thinking being. I think, I think, I think therefore I am. So then if I don't think then I won't be. So I have to compulsively think. Obsessive thinking. We are afraid of not thinking. I am, I must see, hear, taste. I must act. I must do something in this world. I am what I do. So this becomes, this is all because of Upadhi. Why does limitless consciousness have to think? It can think. Or it need not think. It makes no difference to that limitless consciousness. Why does limitless consciousness have to taste a cookie or a rasogulla? It can. In fact, only consciousness can taste a cookie. What else can taste a cookie? Nothing. Do you see what I mean? To taste something, to see something, to smell, hear, remember, enjoy, suffer. One and one thing is necessary. Consciousness plus the necessary Upadhis. If you have the Upadhis, if you have the world and the mind and senses but no consciousness then you would not have experience. So these Upadhis come and then we become a sentient being. So this is the basic theory of Upadhis. But Sridhama Krishna, he doesn't give this kind of fancy philosophical explanation of Upadhis. He is very eminently, pre-eminently practical and the examples he gives are very nice examples. Very vibrant, living examples. So he says for example, an example of an Upadhi. Each Upadhi changes man's nature. Philosophically speaking, what is our nature? Pure consciousness. And how does an Upadhi change it? The presence of mind makes pure consciousness into a thinking being. The presence of the body makes pure consciousness seems to make pure consciousness into an embodied being. But here he gives examples. If he wears a fine black-boarded cloth, you are at once finding Maha Ming Nidhu Babu's love songs. So you can think of a Bengali dandy or what you would call in New York to be a dude. A dude in 19th century Calcutta with a black-boarded dhoti and in vogue at that time where it's called in Bengali Nidhu Babu Tappa. There are light Bengali songs. There are romantic songs. So he starts humming those songs and he walks with a cane. So that was high fashion in those days. Then playing cards and then he will play cards. So I was saying that if Sriramakrishna had seen mobile phones, that was a classic example of Upadhi. Immediately changes our behaviour. There's just the presence of the mobile phone. Then he gives another example. A skinny guy. He wears high boots. So he begins to whistle and climb stairs like an Englishman. Remember there were Englishmen where there in the Calcutta was the capital of the British Empire. So Englishmen. And so he jumping one step to another. And if you get a pen, he says in those days latest technology, a pen. So he grabs some paper and starts immediately scribbling on it. Why does he do that? Because the pen is the Upadhi. And in Indian languages Upadhi is the title. So the surname is the Upadhi. And then your qualifications are the Upadhi. Your doctor, an MBBS, an MD, your lawyer, an LLB or something or an MBA. Those are Upadhi. You write it after your name. So that's an Upadhi. That adds something to your identity. The presence of that exactly like this philosophical thing. It adds something to your identity. Now here's the point. Why am I repeating all this? A funny observation. Couldn't resist it. I remember there was a time when there was this. It was in style. You would write your academic qualifications after your name. And on the nameplate in your apartment or your house it would be written. So and so B-A-M-A. And there was this gentleman in Calcutta. It's a true story. So and so B-A-M-A within brackets failed. That's an Upadhi. Failed. So he took the exams. He didn't get through. But at least that's his credit that he at least, you know, he came to that level. He took the exams. B-A-M-A failed. How can you fail an MA examination? Yeah. B-A passed and MA failed. But at least he tried. You know that's his... No. He is serious. That's his prestige. You know, it's prestigious. It would have been better if he passed the exam but at least he tried. Yes. So the ego like you described with the function that kind of makes all the different senses of everything into a unifying experience. Coordinates how? And it also makes the person feel like I did it. Or it's me experiencing it. And that's so essential to the function of a human being. So if you get harm to a whole, there's somebody you live without that. It doesn't. That's why I said when the enlightened person has ego. As functional as all of us. And yet the enlightened person is also free of the ego. We are not free of the ego. We think I am this. Ah, that's what I talked about. The enlightened person sees that I am not the ego. And if I'm not the ego, then everything associated with the ego thoughts, emotions, ideas, I'm none of them. All of it is appearing. So the enlightened person can continue to use all of it. Can use the ego to unite all the activities of the mind and the intellect and memory and the body. And can think, feel, perceive, act in this world and yet be free of it. That saying is there. It's the person never becomes free but you become free of the person. So the enlightened person, the person is still there. The enlightened person, the enlightened one is free of that personality. That's what it means to be free of the ego. Another example let me give. How the upadis work. Dream. So in our dreams we have an experience. We see people, we see events happen. We see places, sky and earth. Even if vaguely. And dreams are very important for therapists and therefore in New York, this was the place for therapy. 1950s, 60s, 70s. Anybody in New York, Manhattan you had to have a therapist. By the way, just related to this, there is a nice new book on Jung and Vivekananda. Steve Herman has written this book. Just now published. It's doing the rounds. People are saying good things about it. So, yeah. Now think of a dream. We see all this and notice in my dream I'm also there. I'm part of the dream. But really what's going on? When we wake up, how would you explain what happened? I fell asleep and the mind in its own place dreamt of this virtual universe and put me in there also. So I was part of my own dream. Now what's actually there in the dream? Just the dreaming mind. There are no people there. There's no body there. There are no sky and earth there. It's all in the mind, right? So just the mind by itself has created all of it. But just the mind by itself cannot walk around, cannot enjoy, suffer, get scared by a nightmare. No. What the mind does is it now projects upadhis. It projects a person into the dream. You. You have a body in the dream. You have a mind in the dream. You are in an environment. You can actually see, hear, smell, taste, touch. You can think. You can feel fear and anxiety in the dream. Maybe there's a train you have to catch and you're running late. It's a typical dream, anxiety. No matter what I do, I can't seem to make it on time. So this is like a typical dream that we, most of many people have it. But where is the train? Where is this sense of time? Where is this anxiety? All of these are upadhis projected by the mind. Now the mind can begin to experience pain, pleasure. If it was just mind and you're very clear, just the mind, no objects, no thoughts, no imagination, you couldn't have a dream. Now you've projected all this. The next thing that the mind does is it makes, it forgets itself that it's sleeping. That I am actually in bed and sleeping, that has to be covered up. Otherwise you can't have a dream. And then you have a dream. You might have a lucid dream once in a while. But generally in a dream, we have totally forgotten that we are in bed and sleeping. Now this is the example. But what's happening here? According to Vedanta, you are this limitless consciousness, just like the mind in the dream. Now this limitless consciousness projects upadhis. Just as in the dream, the mind projected a personality, one person in the dream with a body and a mind of its own. And an ego. And you feel you are there and projected a world. Similarly consciousness here projects upadhis, mind, intellect, senses, body, world. Then just as in the dream, the dreaming mind covered itself up and forgot that it was sleeping and it's all a dream. Forgot that conveniently. Here itself pure consciousness is covered up by ignorance. Maya. And we forget that we are unlimited consciousness. We are Satchidha Ananda. And now the dream can proceed in the dream world and the waking dream also can proceed now happily. So it's consciousness plus upadhis all activated by ignorance. But if ignorance goes away, what will happen? In the dream it will become a lucid dream. You realize you are dreaming but suppose the dream doesn't break. For a time being you can still be in that virtual environment. Similarly here also the enlightened one realizes what's going on here. I am Satchidha Ananda. And all of this indeed is Satchidha Ananda. It's existence consciousness. It's God inside and outside. And yet still appears like a world. All the upadhis are still appearing. And the enlightened one can continue to behave as before and interact with all of us. Sometimes they will be extraordinary and we see something very different about this person. Sometimes