Mark Ovland: Talk - Rubin's Vase & the Drama of Life

I'd like to say something quite, or speak to something quite particular tonight, which probably comes as good news given the situation and the fact I'm here with a microphone. But what I mean is that there's something quite particular, and I'm not entirely sure how the best way to bring it across is. It feels kind of slightly slippery and I kind of come off and it can sound like something else or whatever. But there's something particular. I've written down some thoughts. Whether those thoughts shape themselves into a kind of coherent talk with a beginning, middle and end, I have no idea. It may be that it's more a collage, a scrapbook of just different ideas that are connected. But either way, whatever does end up being said, hopefully it will somewhat link bridge what's come before into what's coming next, and be somewhat interesting. That's the plan. And hopefully I can get something of what I want to get across across. So first idea in the scrapbook, first post-it note says, the Rubin vase. Who knows what the Rubin vase is? Very good. Pass. Probably many more of you know what the Rubin vase is, but just don't know the name, and I didn't know the name until earlier today. I just looked up what this was that I had in my mind. So congratulations to those of you who do know. Rubin's vase, Rubin was a psychologist, I think, beginning in the 20th century. And Rubin's vase is that picture that when you look at it, from one perspective, it looks like a vase, or like a candlestick, something like that, you know, that shape. And then after not too long you realize, ah, the contours of this vase or candlestick, let's call it a vase, the contours of that actually are like the outline of someone's portrait. It looks like a face. And in fact it's symmetrical, so it looks like, oh, there's two faces looking at each other. And the question is, is this a vase or is this two faces? Who knows it now? Who knows? And if you happen not to have come across that, hopefully that explanation was good enough. So the interesting thing with this, or one interesting thing, isn't exactly actually what Rubin was pointing to, but for our purposes, for a kind of dharma thing, it's interesting in that, you know, which, is it really a vase? Hands off if you think it's really a vase. Is it really two faces? Yeah, I mean I don't know, but my sense is that both are true, but neither are the ultimate final truth, like it really is this way. And that's what makes it interesting for us, it's like, ah, so if I look at it this way, I see this thing, and there's a truth to that, yeah, I see the vase. I can't dispute that. And then if I look a different way, I see something else, which is also true. So these concurrent truths that are very different from each other, they're together, and neither of them are the final reality, but both exist. It's probably obvious how this maps onto everything that we say from up front here. But let's just remember that it's important, both true with a small t, neither true with a capital t. Next thought, what is it that we experience as human beings? What is our experience made up of? I mean right now, what is there? There's sights, there's things that we see, if our eyes are open and we have that sense available to us. And there's sounds, and there's bodily sensations, tactile, there's thoughts, emotions, moods. It's basically the stuff of the six senses. In the Dharma, in Buddhism, the sixth sense is the intellect, which is the receiver, so to speak, of thoughts and moods, emotions, all of that inner stuff. And that's our experience. It's the stuff of the senses. The Buddha used the term the all, A-L-L, the capital A, the all. That's what we've got. And some of it's pleasant, some of it's unpleasant, and some of it's kind of neither. That's the material of our lives. Let's put these two ideas together. What if this experience that we're given were a kind of complex, multifaceted Ruben's vahs? So here are all these sense data. How I look at that is going to give me a different experience. How I choose to relate to whatever is going on, that we call life, called experience. However I relate to that is going to give me a different sense. But rather than two different things, vahs or two faces, they're infinite possibilities. Infinite possibilities of how we can relate to this experience. And of course the difference between this and Ruben's vahs is that some of the ways that we relate, sadly, cause more dhuka to arise. We take a certain perspective, we see the world in a certain way and it hurts, and it's hard to bear. And then that same world and that same experience, we look in a different direction and we see something shift, something changes, and it's less hard to bear. Maybe even from a different perspective it moves us towards, oh wow, this feels free, this feels lovely. Just looking at this experience and taking in different directions and it gives me a different experience. And of course coming back, what's really important here is that which of those experiences is true with a capital T? And does it matter that something's true with a capital T? Or like this example that's been offered over the days of treating experience, this is one view that we have of all of this, treating experience as if it's just stuff arising to be met with kindness. That's what this is. And in the moments that we're choosing to look in that way there's no other way of perceiving life, it's not that something else is happening or we need to keep something else in mind. That's what life is, that's what this is. It's phenomena arising to be met with kindness. And as Nathan said, is it true? Maybe it's not ultimately true, but is it helpful? Yeah, probably. Many times. We could choose to look at it in all sorts of ways, we could say, okay, yep, this is phenomena arising to be met with kindness. We could also say, okay, this is stardust that's been rearranging and rearranging itself over billions of years. And that's the lens I have and I see this and I just see stardust. That's true. What's helpful right now? What's the effect? So I've been speaking about the effect of these different ways of looking on the heart, on perception. What leads us towards more freedom? What leads us towards more dhukha? Now what we've got to be careful of, and this kind of is obviously going to be there for us, particularly in the beginning whatever years of practice and probably way more than that, is that sneaking idea that, yeah, yeah, yeah, I can look at this as if it's just things to be met with kindness, but really it's not that, is it? Really it's x, y, z. And this is just a nice kind of thing that we can do there. But what the Buddha is pointing to, maybe there is no really. What would that mean? You know, coming back to Ruben's vase, maybe there is no really. Like is it a vase? Is it two faces? It depends how you look at it. And how would it be to have that question, have that idea in the background of our practice as we go on? Like is there really a really? Or are there just loads of ways of looking and ways of relating and each one shows me a different reality, creates, fabricates a different reality. And that's what I experience. So of all of these possibilities, I want to speak to one. So this is this kind of particular thing that I was mentioning at the beginning. Just one way that we can choose to shift how we see, relate to all of this that's happening. And that concerns how much weight, how much significance we give to the things that are arising. To, as I sit here, the thoughts that come into my head, to the emotions that I'm feeling, the sensations of that, the pains in my body, what other people are doing, what's happening, what are the sounds, all the stuff of life. How much do we look to that for life, for happiness, well-being, how much weight do we put on the happenings in experience? Now that sounds by abstract, probably because we can't often conceive of something other than that. Well surely that is what life is. It is these comings and goings of sights and sounds and this and that. What else could I possibly give significance to? And this is the flip I want to point to, with the vase, the two faces. Now what would it be if we weren't to give all of this stuff that usually comprises like everything in my experience so much significance? Even just imagine it now, if all of that stuff was actually, didn't matter so much. All the thoughts, everything else, actually that's not the most important thing that's going on. It may be hard to do, but these practices and what we'll do tomorrow, it can help us. I don't know if it sounds attractive. Another thought, another post it on the fridge, whatever it is. Let's take a step to the side and actually kind of a step back and think about what we've been doing the last couple of days and the practices we've been opening up. So one thing that can help open up this sense of vast awareness is exactly these things that have been suggested. Like opening up the senses to sound and particularly distant sound so that the mind, the awareness naturally kind of stretches out to take that in. Or imagining the mind like the sky or like outer space, just bringing that kind of through the imagination, opening out that sense. So that's great, that's very useful. Has anyone noticed in their practice either on retreat now or in the past, a sense of openness arise without actually planning that, without trying to imagine a sense of space. Has a sense of space opened up? Yeah, got some nods. And do you know, can you think what's led to that? And you can say out loud, that's a question. If there's a sense of spaciousness, openness, expansiveness, vastness even that opens up in practice, what is it that you've been doing that you think might have led to that? It's contributed to that. Less clinging. Less clinging. Yeah. Sorry? Dropping concepts. Some concentration. Softness, calm. Yeah. Less involvement in the details. Great. Yorg, are you going to... Simplicity. Simplicity. Great. Thank you, all of that. And the kind of undercurrent, the common denominator is what's been named with less clinging. All of what's been mentioned has this... can open up when there's less clinging, when there's less entanglement with stuff. And not always, but often, when there is this deep letting go, dropping the clinging, dropping the entanglement, what happens, what opens up is naturally, organically, this sense of vastness. It's not something we have to create. And actually then, for some of us, can feel more natural than trying to kind of make it to begin with. If I concentrate on letting go, then something just opens up. It's not... Yeah, the mind doesn't kind of shrink in it. Through the letting go, it really opens up. So just to draw out, interestingly, in the kind of little guided meditations in the mornings, as part of the morning instructions that Soha and Nathan have both led, there's been the kind of the main thing, what seemed like the main thing in each of those. And then you might have noticed kind of comments, guidance put into those meditations. Things like... I made a note of them as you were doing it. Just happening. Experience just happening. Just... was it happening, happening, happening? Let the happening happen. Let the happening happen. And this morning, talking about the transience of experience, that it barely being there, talking about the flow of experience. So these comments or guidance that was put in might sound like kind of just innocuous... Yeah, nice things to drop into a meditation, kind of sets the ambience. Yes. And actually incredibly pivotal in both opening up and establishing that vastness. Kind of just snuck in there. Because those very phrases encourage us to let go of our entanglement with experience. If we relate to it as just happening, as Nathan said, there's no kind of assumption needed of it, even a self that's kind of doing anything. It's like, no, it's just experience happening. Can you feel the dropping waves? Like, ah, okay, yeah, just let it happen. And that very letting go also contributes to the vastness, allows it, establishes it. The same with seeing experience just come and go. It's like, if I'm looking at that, if I'm seeing just movement change, then something in my being, without thinking about it, knows I can't really grab hold of anything. So, okay, well, I won't. That happens automatically. It's just like, okay, let experience happen. All of these little phrases, like actually, we could take any of those as a practice. And just for the whole 45 minutes, okay, what if I just look at experience through this lens of it's just happening. And see, does that allow the letting go, letting go, does that open up even the space, the vastness? But what's important is that we can see through this and through letting go of our infatuation with the stuff of experience. And most of us are infatuated. Whether we like what it's doing or not, we're completely spellbound and entranced by experience. And if we can let go of that a little bit, let it just happen, let it just flow by, maybe some of us have felt, oh, that feels actually really nice. Really nice. And that's important to see. Because we might think that if we let go of our real involvement with experience, then life would be kind of boring. It's like, well, that is life if I'm letting it go. Or then that might be a bit drab and gray. And so it's important to see, no, very much no. Actually, that feels really good. That was a bit of a silly comment, but not that last one, this next one. I'm going to say that anyway. Not silly. And I was thinking of having all this stuff and then just letting it go and thinking, oh, my God, life's going to collapse. There's nothing. It was a bit like, I don't know if anyone here uses social media. I was on Facebook many, many years ago. And I remember when I left that, it was a real sense of like, what's going to happen to the world? What's going to happen to my world? Like, this is everything, surely. This is how communication happens. This is where everything's shared. What happens if I step back? From Facebook or Instagram or X or whatever it is. It can be that sense of this is where everything is. And so it's important to see, it's like, oh, all of this stuff that I'm, you know, but we're addicted to drama, most of us. And it's like, oh, if I actually put that down, it's fine. It's fine. And we might say, you know, yeah, okay, it's fine in meditation. And, you know, that's something that I can do when I don't have the rest of life happening. I can just, you know, let experience do its thing and have some peace maybe from that. But it doesn't really map onto life. Or actually, I do need to engage and do things. And it doesn't work as an approach. And on one level, absolutely. And we can just choose to see the vase rather than the two faces. We can choose to, you know, see all the stuff and think that it's important and do what we need to do to arrange it in ways that we want to arrange it. And we've used this word choice a few times on the retreat. Can there be a choice there? Can we know what it's like to not do that? And whatever, to see the two faces or to see that the stuff of life doesn't have to be the main event, the risings and experience. Can we develop that as a choice that we can slip into? And I'm wanting to say this, and this is kind of part of the fine point, there's a lot of experience in this hall, a lot of depth of practice. And also many of you have been here for, you know, two weeks. There's a deepening here. I could feel like a lot is possible. And the way that we talk about the Dharma often, for very good reason, is what most of us need most of the time, is, you know, here's this dhukka in my life, this difficulty, and it's like, yeah, here's something that the Dharma can do to soothe that, to free something up. It's really important, and there's all sorts of skills that we offer and that we can learn and achieve that. And that's not the only thing the Buddha was offering. It wasn't just to be able to kind of get less unpleasant stuff. One of the things being offered is a kind of stepping outside of that whole need to get the pleasant and the unpleasant in a nice combination. And it feels like that's worth saying. You know, given the experience here, given the depth, it's like, yeah, actually these teachings do point somewhere quite radical, a completely different way to perceive, understand, be with this thing that we call life. And this is one of those ways that I'm pointing to tonight. There's coming out of the infatuation of things. And I don't know, maybe it's just obvious that that's a really nice thing, and maybe we're all like, yeah, I want that, but how do I get there? Or maybe there's totally other responses that come up. The fear, the contraction, the sense of like, oh God, what would that even look like? That addiction to the Dharma, which is, again, understandable, it's where we get our sense of self often. And those two things actually go together. The more clinging, the more sense of a separate self, those two are built together. And when there's less clinging, as you might have found in meditation, the sense of self, separate self, all of that starts to quiet and to loosen. So yeah, when we find it's like, I know who I am when I'm clinging and I know what I like and know what I don't like and I'm kind of in this relationship, it's like, yes, great, here I am. When that starts to, if we stop being so interested in that and this whole thing becomes quieter, yeah, it might be an acquired taste, it might be a bit scary to begin with. But maybe there's an intuition of something so free in being able to be way less concerned about what arises and what passes away in this experience. I mean, to make it very practical, what might that look like if we were that way in life? We were at home, it might not look that different from the outside. It would feel very different and be perceived differently. Maybe our partner, our child, our housemate or whatever doesn't do the washing up rather than, again, and everything and the blame and the judgement and the contraction and we just go and do the washing up. It's like, big deal. Maybe we have a talk to them later or whatever but it's just like there's not the... It doesn't matter. It's just stuff happening and now I'll go and do the stuff happening, I'll go and do the dishes. It's just less important. We find ourselves in a conversation, a difficult conversation with a loved one and it's unpleasant and it's awkward and that's totally fine. It doesn't need to be otherwise. With human beings, of course, that stuff arises and we can be with that and be with the awkwardness and there's just a bigger holding. It doesn't matter that that's there. I still remain totally open and loving and connected and there's just not that need for things to be a certain way. We're less affected by what's called the worldly winds which I'm sure many of you know that Buddhist teaching. Pain and pleasure, it's less important whether there's pain or pleasure in the body. What are the couples' fame and disrepute, praise and blame, all these things that happen, gain and loss, it doesn't matter. It's like, yeah, of course that's going to happen. It's fine. I'm actually putting less weight on it needing to be a particular way. And again, all of this leads to contentment. It leads to deep well-being. It's a drab grey thing and I don't know how it sounds. Probably landing in different places. And of course, to come back to that word choice, there's always the choice, you know, we can always pick up the drama and the entanglement and the dukkha if we get a bit homesick. It's like, sure, see the vase again, it's up to you. But it's like we come to discover a completely other source of well-being of nourishment that isn't dependent on ephemeral happenings. It's l