James Baraz in Conversation with Romy Schlichting (Part 2)

was suggesting another uh short meditation uh to um to start and settle down and maybe this one will be a bit more heart oriented since I say I I don't I don't do formal meta much but we we will now. Uh so um go inside take some nice deep breaths and breathe through your heart. Just imagine your heart can breathe in all the goodness in this room. There's so much. And as you breathe out, imagine or envision just radiating out well-being to everyone here. As you're doing this, just get in touch with the fact that there's a part of you that naturally loves to wish well for others and naturally wants to wish well for yourself. Even if those times you don't like yourself, you want to be happy and you probably wish that for yourself. And so there's a part of you that naturally wants to express goodness and goodwill. And as you reflect on that, delight on this goodness that is who you really are. You wouldn't be here this evening if that were not so. And just feel gratitude for the fact that your heart wants to wish well for others and for yourself. You've been given a gift of kindness and care as well. How fortunate that life has given you that. And just a few moments of gratitude for all the ways that life has given you blessings. And then lastly, just a bit more gratitude practice. Bring to mind some blessing in your life. One blessing. Maybe someone or some thing, some situation. Bring to mind a blessing and have an image of that blessing. Maybe that person or that circumstance. have an image of of this blessing and then give a silent thank you right from your heart to that being or that situation. Thank you. And then just really let yourself feel that experience of gratitude. Thank you for being in my life and enjoy it. Relax into it. Then when you're ready, gently at your own rate, come on back into the room and stay connected to that grateful heart inside. Thank you. Okay. Now, >> let's see [laughter] any any questions or things that you want to >> English. Yeah. >> Um I have seen you uh recently in a video in Yukabal with J. >> You did what with it? >> Uh you were in a video in a Yuka Valley. >> Oh, in Yaka Valley. Oh, so that's an old video. That was a while ago. >> A while ago before I think and I was thinking what changed in your practice since since that time and um maybe you went through a time where you didn't really believe in dharma anymore >> or you had some time just just don't want to teach dharma and go to do a carpenter or >> not me. [laughter] So what what kept you moving >> different times and >> I mean you said you you are practicing since 50 years >> and what is really changed I mean the dharma is still the same. >> Uh what is the the really the the essence of what changes in your teaching? Mhm. >> Okay. So, for those who might not have heard or maybe on online, uh what's changed in all these years from my teaching and have there been times when I said, "Oh, well, there's nothing happening and maybe I should do something else." Um, is that pretty much it? >> Um, well, there's I I don't think there's ever been actually since I was exposed to the dharma that I ever thought, "Oh, that's not for me." Because the dharma saved me. And I believe in mindfulness. I believe in love. that I believe in um as long as I'm facing in the right direction I'm doing I'm doing okay. uh what changed you know the dharma goes through you go through different phases and so after a while you just for me you know I don't have doubt about the path that's one thing um and if there's a I remember this Tibetan teacher uh saying if there's a a a problem uh between you and the dharma, chances are the no. If there's if there's a if there's a difficulty between you and the dharma, chances are the problem doesn't lie with the dharma. [laughter] >> A conflict, if there's a conflict between you and the dharma. Yeah. So if I'm going through a hard time, I think at some point it became clear life is just life. Life is happening. And my the essence of dharma practice for me is it's not what's happening out there that counts so much is what is my relationship to what's happening out there. and so forth. So that pretty early on. Um I I I I saw I might be going through my struggles. I might be going through my um my own papancha, my spinning mind. But um fortunately pretty early on I saw the problems are created by this mind and believing the thoughts not by something out there doing it to me because life is just life. That said, there are times that I have gone through a plateau as you know what's the point you know or am I getting anywhere that progress that's a that's a problem oh when I get there then everything will be happy and that's if you have that thought let go it's happening right here that's the only place you will ever only awakened and now is the only time that will ever be not out there. So, but when you're there's a plateau you um you have to trust in the unfolding and just that you're fa that I'm facing in the right direction. And I think probably one of the big developments over the time is that um I trust in awareness. [snorts] Not that everything's going to work out cuz there's dooka in life. There's suffering in life. So, it's not trusting that everything's going to work out, but trusting that my awareness or awareness can meet that moment when it comes. And I just take this step and this step and this step because I trust in impermanence that I have a very deep embracing everything changes. So no matter how flat [snorts] or difficult or whatever is happening, it's going to change. I know it's going to change. And so over time, if I can learn while I'm going through the difficulty, then it's useful. My teacher, Joseph Goldstein, has a very good instruction, especially when you're going through a hard time. He says, "Don't waste your suffering. [laughter] That is that is learn from it as you can. deepen your compassion, deepen your understanding, deepen your uh meta, deepen your patience, your equinimity. Um because it's going to change. Then you don't have to worry that you're going to be stuck there, but learn from it. And if it's really good, it's going to change. So not to hold on to it thinking oh how can I keep it here? So one of my mottos is impermanence rules impermanence. How do you say in ter rules, you know, just um and that goes >> that goes for for plateaus. It goes for leaders in power and you're saying ah everything changes. It goes for the good times, the bad times, and so more and more there's a deep understanding and belief that everything changes. And so I want to be here as much as I can for whatever is here. And from the beginning to now, there has been just a deepening confidence. Everything changes and I can trust the more I meet this moment with awareness. When that moment that I might be worried about comes, more likely I will meet that moment with awareness. But if I'm worried in this moment about that moment, chances are when I get to that moment, I'll be worried about the next moment. And I'll always be toppling forward to the future. [snorts] So all I can have is this moment to wake up to. And the more I can trust that my awareness can meet this moment, which it always has. I mean, you've made it through all your difficulties in your life. You're here tonight, right? So, if you look back, oh, I guess I made it through every difficult situation. I'm still here. You'll probably make it through that one in one way or another. And that deepening trust um over time has has made a huge difference. There's a Ajan Cha Jack Kornfield's main teacher Ajan Sumed's uh teacher he says first we um hear the dharma we hear the teachings then we understand the dharma then it kind of makes sense. Oh yeah. Then we realize the dharma. Oh wow. >> Yeah canon. Then we become the dharma. It's the same dharma from beginning to end, but it's deeper and deeper an embodied understanding rather than just uh cerebral. And that hope happens if you keep if you keep um sincerely uh meeting the moment with the intention to to wake up and be present. So >> just one more quote that really was explained now by you in detail and that hit me over the last two weeks when I was was preparing this retreat on equinimity. You said we are, you quoted a friend. I think we are in a race. >> Yeah. My friend Roger. [snorts] >> Fear and awareness. >> Consciousness. Yeah. >> And consciousness. Yeah. >> My my dear friend Roger who just turned 80 two days ago. um who's written many books and is um um somebody that I I learn from, we learn from each other and he he said a number of years ago he said just as Rome is saying we're in a race between fear and consciousness. That's the game board that we're on, you know. And consciousness always is more powerful than fear. Trumps fear. You know that that that word consciousness is stronger than fear. But it's a bit of a race because because everything is on the line now. So that's why we want to show up as much as we can uh not from fear, not from a sense of urgency, from oh my god what the sky is falling but uh from love because the more we we do what we do out of love, the the better it feels inside and the the more attractive it is for others. There's Oh, yeah. I want to I want to come from a place of loving the planet, of loving life. And one of my main inspirations is a a teacher named Julia Butterfly Hill, who was went up to an old redwood in California to save save it and trees from being logged. and she's very inspiring and she says you take this moment not as a burden. Oh, it's up to me to to rescue to save the planet. But she says as a a joyful responsibility. You take it as a joyful responsibility to let your love be the source of your caring and your action. So that's another thing that's happened. >> Maybe just the explanation of the word Trump. You didn't mean you didn't mean the person. No, >> but um the answer >> you're playing cards. The trump card. Yeah. >> Consciousness trumps fear. >> Thank you for clarifying that. >> Yeah. uh because the word is on our minds most of the times unfortunately >> takes a lot of real estate in [laughter] here. >> Yes. Um yeah, what this also takes is that you open up to everything whether it's deep suffering or joy and it reminds me of one of the poems I think I have it from you Khalil Gipan on >> joy and suffering I'm sure >> and sorrow. Yeah. And sorrow. >> Your your um your your sorrow is is your uh your joy is your sorrow unmasked. Um they come from the same place. And the deeper your sorrow carves into your being, the more joy capacity you have for joy. uh you don't have to go looking for suffering for there to be joy. But when you go through a really hard time, if you use it well, if you don't waste your suffering, it deepens your understanding of the human condition and it deepens your connection to everyone and it gives you courage to face all the difficulties inside And underneath that is is joy. Who we who we really are. We come into this world as babies. If we're fed and we're diapered [clears throat] and we're given a little bit of love. Wow. Isn't life wonderful? That's that's who you really are. So it's reclaiming your your true nature. >> Yeah. So suffering he started out the first noble truth. Suffering is part of life. And the more you're able to work with it and less afraid you are of it, you come to the end of suffering, which is freedom, which is awakening, which is love. So don't be afraid of suffering or learn how to how to work with it. Well, um, yeah. Could [snorts] we call this true equinimity? >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Not indifference but opening up to the suffering and giving it space. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. [clears throat] >> More questions. >> I'm I'm new and I'm so inspired by I can't maybe get it can't get it in words but your explanation and the focus in the meditation not in myself because there is not a good place to be and focus on the outside and uh praying for the word or you know this is very very nice and I wish that you maybe can tell me where I can read more about it or I get some more instruction about this kind of meditation >> about not focusing so much on yourself but learning to um to express your love. >> I can re uh recommend one book awakening joy [laughter] um But in in in that book there are many good books. There's a book on loving kindness by Sharon Salsberg. It's a good book. But what I tried to do was take the teachings, the Buddhist teachings and um and put them in a userfriendly accessible way to cultivate all the beautiful states inside. Um I wrote it by the way uh because I I lost my joy. Um, that sometimes happens. You see how you say, "Oh, how terrible lost your joy and I ended up writing a book about it and teaching about it because I lost it." So, you never know. But in that in that book uh I put together a a number of different teachings leading up to first loving ourselves. That's the seventh chapter. But yeah, don't skip to that one. You can skip to that one if you want. But like I was saying before, it's about seeing, oh, I'm really okay. And then the more that you see that you're really okay, you don't have to keep on getting confirmation from everyone else. Am I really okay? Am I really okay? You can line up eight billion people saying you're really okay, but if you're not feeling it yourself, it won't really it won't get to the to the to the source. But once you see that you're really okay and really that you're you are an expression of life that's never been here before and you're perfectly who you are, then you can just kind of relax and then see, oh, who else is out there? Oh, hi. And what about you? and then then you just want to share that that goodness. So, um yeah, [snorts] that's since since you're asking me I and I I put some time and effort into trying to communicate in a way that makes sense. Uh you might check [snorts] that one out to start. >> Thank you. >> Second. Okay. >> I actually offer a welcoming joy live here um for a whole uh for an annual class one session. >> Okay. >> What else? Anything else? >> Lisa. >> Ah, Lisa. >> Um kind of probably goes hand inhand with what Sorry. Yes, speak up. >> Um, it probably goes hand inhand with what you answered to the first question already somehow. >> But I'm wondering if we have one particular thing that grabs our attention. It kind of also steals it and we find that it's always the same thing. But we I for me I haven't been able to meet it my um for for me it's a body pain. >> It's a pain. It's a body pain. Body pain. >> I haven't been able to meet it with kindness or with compassion and then the dharma starts going on in my head and I'm trying to view every single thing that's that's active. I would like to know if you have a good perspective on that. >> Yeah. uh I'm sorry that you are working with that and dealing with that and um so it's been a chronic pain for a long time >> and the attention always goes to this and I think maybe some of us know maybe with the body or with the thought and when we're not paying attention but we come back I find my attention in that sensation somewhere >> and yeah >> so um and are You talking about uh all the time or in meditation? >> Um the all the time? >> All the time. Yeah. Uh well, first it is harder. It's much harder to stay balanced and spacious when the body is in pain. And so, um, I feel for you and I hope you can be that much more patient with the frustration that you might experience rather than getting frustrated that you're frustrated, but to hold the frustration with a lot of tenderness and kindness. As I was saying early on, um the key is not so much what's happening and how can I fix that. You probably have tried to do everything you can to fix it and you know who knows maybe something will change in it but if it doesn't if this is the way it is the way I see it there are two main choices. One is to wish it were different than the way it is and just continue to be very frustrated. And the other is to somehow develop a wise relationship to it that is um filled [snorts] with compassion. that is um for yourself and also this might sound a little strange but a a meta a a a kindness towards that part of your body that is hurting that is doing the best it can to serve you that there's some condition there that is is not um that that is very difficult and our contraction around the condition adds to the whole ball of of tension. So meta uh for yourself, compassion for yourself and maybe even meta and kindness for that body area that is trying its best to serve you. It's kind of having a different relationship. So you're you're cheering on doing as best you can instead of it being the enemy. Um and it can teach one patience. It can teach courage but not that you have to keep staying with that area. you your mind might be drawn there but um the Buddha suggests and I think there's some wisdom in it to um if it's very difficult to stay with one particular object like a difficult body sensation to shift your attention to other things in your experience whether in your body or in your actual field or gratitude ude or or loving kindness that bring about um that divert the attention away and that cultivate some sense of nourishment and well-being. Um and this is, you know, you might think that the Buddha says, "Oh, you're supposed to be with most what's most predominant." But he says, "No, no, no. There are times when it's important to not be with mo what's most predominant and to shift your attention so you're not so exhausted and fatigued and battling this but to nourish yourself in other ways. Um, and if it's something when you're sitting, if it happens, if it's ex if it's intensified when you're sitting, you know, then lie down or do whatever you can as a compassionate, wise action towards your body. Um and um and to just do what you can to get some kind of um lessening the contracted relationship to it as well as whatever contraction in in the body. Um and you in this process I'm working with somebody right now who has chronic pain and it's been it's been hard for her. Uh but we've been working for for the last couple of months and and she's it's been helpful uh because she's starting to learn, okay, how can I relate to this not as the enemy but as something that can deepen my understanding? And so whatever it is that supports that um whether it's taking care of the body or nourishing yourself in other ways and know that you're learning patience, you're learning courage, you're learning some equinimity and um um notice when your mind goes to oh no, here it is again. And make friends with that part. Don't be angry with that part. It just it's a part of us. We're all little boys and girls in big bodies. And when we're saying, you know, oh, that little child in you just needs a whole lot of comforting and uh and make friends with that one, too. And it can be a very powerful source of of of awakening. Uh and I feel for you and wish you the best. for that answer. Thank you so much for that inepth answer. Yeah. You know a question about when you see persons whom you love suffering and you want to help but it affects You are drawn into it. You don't know. Yeah, she Yeah, she she assumes possibly she assumes they suffer a lot and the person maybe doesn't even suffer as much. Uh but yeah to to endure that see a person in a difficult situation uh being affected being drawn into it um what can you do actually to help yourself and the person? >> Yeah, >> very good question. Yeah, >> good question. >> I've heard this before. >> It's a good question. uh when you're if you were suffering and somebody who cared cares about you. Um what is your name? >> Good. >> What is it? >> Good. >> Oh yeah. Good. Oh, this is so terrible. This hurts me so. Uh what can we do to fix it? Oh, this is really really painful to see. How does that feel? >> Not good. >> Not [laughter] good. It's bad enough as it is. Now you have